Success Through Endless Attempts with Judith Gaton

Roberto Candelaria 00:00: Hey y’all, we’re back. And today we’re going to be chatting with another one of my favorite humans Judith Gaton. Now Judith is a master certified life coach style coach, and she is a former attorney. So, she’s still got them chops. And today we’re gonna be chatting about the importance of building self-belief and creating lasting confidence. The last time Judith and I had a conversation we talked a lot about where we were in business and kind of some transitions. And today, what you’ll hear in the episode is where we are what’s evolved, and really talking about even confidence in the way that Judith teaches confidence and what it means to borrow someone’s belief as you’re moving forward in your business. So, tune in for today’s show. And here we go with Judith.

Intro 00:48: Welcome to the Relationships Make Money podcast, where it’s all about the people, partners, and profits. Each week, we’ll explore conversations around partnerships, leadership, our thoughts, and profits. And now your host Roberto Candelaria.

Roberto Candelaria 01:07: Okay, y’all so listen, last time Judith was here, we had a whole conversation about all types of crazy and y’all heard about some new business baby. Now, as we said they weren’t really real babies. But since then, Judith and I have individually and collectively been through this lovely birthing process in our business and she launched her new membership. I’ve launched my membership. We’ve really changed things all over the place. And I’ve been messaging Judith in the background like y’all just don’t even know like, if y’all could see our IG messages y’all would be like, what the actual flight it whatever insert your favorite expletive because like three came to my brain, like goes on in these people’s brains. And so, I think that’s a beautiful place to start you to this, like, what’s been going on since you were like, I have this new business baby, and it was birth and like, where are you now? Let’s start with that.

Judith Gaton 02:00: Yeah, so that was we launched.

Roberto Candelaria 02:02: You recorded last night.

Judith Gaton 02:05: Yeah. Okay. So, after May I put my big girl panties on. And I was like, let’s go. I’m tired of thinking about this evidence. I think I told me like six or seven years ever thinking about the same thing. So, four months later, I launched in September, and we had an amazing launch. We have 100 members. And there’s I am so in love with them. I tell them honestly, like I’m obsessed with you. I love you. And I really mean it. And I think they’re like finally on board like ownership. She really loves us, the way they love each other so beautiful. And they named themselves the Charmings because we’re modern charm school. So, they’re the charming, and they’re part of the charming family. At any time, someone comes in and joins the community. They literally write them Welcome home. Welcome to our charming family. Like it’s so cool. I can’t impress upon everyone enough how much like I love them and the way we love each other. So, we’re thriving, and we’re working on. And hopefully by the time this comes out, I have fully announced it to my pupil. We’re working on a live event because they just want to be with each other. And I had big giant plans, right? We have these big plans. And then we actually ask the people you serve, what would you like, and they’re like, ESL. That sounds nice. We don’t want any of that. We just want time with each other and you and you’re like, Oh, my big giant extravaganza that I’ve been planning in my head for two years. You don’t want Oh, cool. But that’s part of being a business owner, right? You’re actually serving the people that you love and getting them what they actually want or what you think they want. Simple one. So, you tell us because I know you launch something that hangs since our last podcast episode. Tell the people where you’re at and where you’re from.

Roberto Candelaria 03:42: Whoa, oh my gosh, like so. Yeah, I will find the episode and like, link it here. But yeah, let’s change. So, I actually finished my life coach certification, which was a whole situation for those of y’all that have followed me for a hot minute because I know how I felt about the life coaching industry in these 25 cents certificates. Mine was like 25 cents ya’ll now that was Judtih’s. And I’m doing master coach training. And one of the things that we did so where Judith was like, Hey, I had this idea that I wanted to bring into the world. For us it was like there’s this part of the business that like I’m not excited anymore and like I just need to like cut the leg off. And we cut the leg off and or the tail I should say in very much like a lizard it’s growing back, but it’s growing back in such a beautiful way that could have never grown had I just like stayed in like that one place. And I think that I as people I was gonna say as coaches but yeah, this is just like a people thing. I think like we can end up somewhere that’s so comfortable. And when we have that comfort to leave that complex like but the discomfort of the unknown is way more comfortable than the discomfort of the unknown because we’ve been in a bad place and this is good. it so like, let’s just keep good. And so, it’s been a beautiful journey over the past, gosh, as a time of this recording 11 months, and I think what let us both do it was a form of confidence. So, I’m curious to you what is confidence.

Judith Gaton 05:14: So, the way I teach confidence in my students is I kind of think of it as like an equation. And if I coach a lot of nerds, I have sometimes like, think of things in equations, because that works for them. But I think it’s a two-part equation. So, it has to be balanced. On the one hand, we need belief. And on the other hand, we need to make ourselves available to the belief. So, kind of like, we need thoughts, and we need actions. Because just believing that something’s possible, I think it’s where Roberto and I were, we were all up in the belief stage, like, yes, we know we can do it. It’s amazing. It’s exciting. And we’re like, cheering each other on. It’s our belief was high. And our execution was low. Like we weren’t making ourselves available to that belief, or all the capability and all the knowledge and experience that what skills we have, we weren’t availing ourselves of that. And said, we were like, in dreamland. And I think there’s a beauty to staying in there. No, you have to know there’s like this beautiful threshold of like, and you have enough belief in your cup. Now you got to go take some action, so that the belief gets depleted again, cuz you’re like, that fucking it work. Oh, shit that didn’t go to plan. Oh, no, no. And then we have to take a bunch of action. The problem is, and I think for my people probably yours too, is they love to take action without a lot of belief. Do they think being actioning is going to foster and create the belief? And I’m like, no, no, we need a bowl to actually start to cultivate confidence that last, that’s not white knuckling. Or, you know, beating yourself into submission was false motivation. Like, we need a balance of both. And sometimes we have to borrow some to fill our belief cup. And sometimes we just got to go take some action, drain that belief couple a little bit. So, it’s this ongoing, beautiful balancing equation. And that’s just how I like to see confidence. What do you how do you teach it?

Roberto Candelaria 06:58: Yeah, so you know, I don’t know that I’ve ever taught it, which is so fun. Right to even to hear you share this because as you’ve been saying, this, what I’ve been what I was thinking in my head, I was like, oh, yeah, like, you know, when I started the business, and I just recently did an Instagram post about this is like, and you’re gonna hear me talking a lot more about this part of the journey, because I don’t think it’s talked about enough by me or other people is, you know, I started my company on an $832 a month Social Security disability check and $104 in food stamps. And so like, when people are like, well, you should just think different, you should be like, Nah, bitch, I was hungry. And I didn’t want to live under a bridge. Like, and so I think like, I for reals, like, and so like, there wasn’t like, it was like, you can’t pay your rent with thoughts. Oops, I apartment place here on my beautiful thoughts. I believe I can pay my rent. Let me live here. They’re going to be like, can we believe you should be on the street, we’re filing an eviction order. And, you know, thankfully, I was never evicted or anything like that. When I started in 2009, like, you know, there was no beautiful story of like, I tripled my corporate salary. I this I just was like, No, I want to eat. And so like, I took action from the place of I need to eat. And so, it was fascinating to hear in your example, because I realized how much I did white knuckle, how much it was like, which look like listen, like without a doubt. Like, there’s got to be food on the table. We love electric. We love running water, and it by white-knuckling at first it actually, in an odd way, taught me that I can have my back. But then I understood like the side of emotions and processing and like, Oh, this is why I’m not doing that. And so, there was this odd level of belief that was like, Oh, we can do this. Like, let’s go, like we just go make it happen. And, you know, gosh, 14 years later, I still have that belief of like, okay, like, if I say I’m gonna do something, it’s just gonna happen. And so, it does. But it’s like, I learned that, like you said, I just maybe didn’t start the way everybody else did, because I was in such a place of scarcity, because that’s where I was when I started my business. I don’t know. Does that make sense?

Judith Gaton 09:10: No, that totally makes sense. And I think it’s an important conversation to have because I think sometimes on them coaching streets right out in the coach land, which I love myself, help peeps, I love my service provider peeps. But I think sometimes, and I hate is a crude gesture that I make for this, but I’m gonna do it here because y’all can’t see me. I want you to think of fondling a certain body part when your little fingers pick your favorite one, because that fondling is fondling them that like there’s so much happening in terms of could hire could not is there a right way? What is so and so doing? How did they do it? And that has utility to a certain point. But if we’re not actually going and executing, we’re doing a thought exercise in a vacuum. I don’t know what’s going to work for your audience until you go send them some shit. And they tell you they hate it. Right, which I’ve done was we were all thought, oh my gosh, how many of us have done a webinar where no one showed up? And we’re like, okay, so we’ll call it this again, when good notice Well, right. Like, I won’t know, I can create this whole event, right as a thought exercise, let’s just use that example. Right. He’s beautiful event, this extravaganza that I have envisioned, and put a lot of money and time and energy and my audience didn’t like, it sounds like a lot. Like he would just like come together into a room and have like dinner, that I stopped along the way to ask you, I would have known that, right. But if we’re only doing the exercises, and vacuums are these beautiful, lofty goals, which has usefulness and purpose, I don’t want to diminish that. But it’s sort of what we need to ask the humans we serve with to take it out to the streets, we have to avail ourselves of all these ideas, and go test them in the real marketplace.

Roberto Candelaria 10:52: Yeah. And so like, when we talk about this, like level of confidence, and I think that there’s like that, I don’t know, y’all, they’ll tell us, like, I think that there can be a difference between like, the competence in you, and the competence in your idea. And sometimes they both come to this beautiful place where they match. So, like, I know that if I’m going to go do something, like, I’m going to do it, and I’m gonna do it well, and I’m probably going to be the best at it. Which is why like, a lot of people don’t like to play card games and board games with me, because I’m just like, I’m going to win, bitch. But I just go into the game. With that attitude. Even if I’ve never played the game before. I’m gonna win. And I have that, like, audacity in business sometimes. But then it’d be like, you come up with an offer. And I don’t know if any of y’all have done this, you come up with the offer. Like, it’s the most amazing offer in the world, like the event that Judith was just talking about, like this big extravaganza, and you’re just like, I’m gonna make this happen. This is the best event in the world. And then like the two meet on a bridge together, and your people see it, and they just like, that is so lovely. I’m so glad you did that. But yeah, like, that’s not what we wanted. And like, how do people differentiate the difference between like, your confidence in your ability, your confidence and having your back? And then if and when your people see it, and they’re just like, not really what I wanted. They’re like, you don’t make it mean anything about you? Because I also see people do that. They’re just like, we’ll see everything I do sucks.

Judith Gaton 12:21: Yeah, like, because I mean, there’s two kinds of like, I put it it’s like the hero’s journey is always fascinating, right? And I want you to think of like, if you’re the hero of this journey, the hero’s journey is like, we need external validation help the we’re on the right track, right. So that’s part of the hero’s journey, like, Frodo goes to drop the ring and the Lava Mountain. We need some peeps along the way, need someone to be like, Yeah, that’s the road you take, they’ll go ride go left, like, we need those external cues. I think where things get weird, is we think it always has to be internal. And I think that’s not how humans work. That’s not how we’re wired, we need a measure of bulls. The key is not to make the external mean everything about you. But not to also think that you have to generate this internal motivation all by yourself has been immaculate, you need a mix of all the things to have a more productive, more successful, or even just a more like in, you know, sort of internally fulfilling hero’s journey. We need all the things we need people to tell us that didn’t work for me. Don’t try it. Go left. Go right. Here’s some shit to take on your journey, you’re Frodo, like we need those things. And we also at certain point, after believe in our own, like, agency that what we decided to do by going on this journey in the first place was the right choice. And I don’t know that there is a sweet spot three step process, I can offer anyone other than to say that if you ever feel like asked, welcome, you’re going to great club. Have you ever doubt that something you did was a good idea? Welcome. If you ever think that somebody knows better than you, but they really don’t think you just trust your own intuition. Welcome. Like, I think it’s our normal part of the process. That’s not talked about enough, because we’re all supposed to somehow be internally motivated. And I think that’s bullshit. That’s not how it actually works.

Roberto Candelaria 14:14: Yeah, it doesn’t. I mean, at least for me. So, with that, like, what are some of the ways that people can learn to build that confidence? I know that one of them that we talked about, right? Before, like we were recording was this idea of borrowing belief or borrowing credibility and adding Barbarin credible or maybe borrowing credibility? Or confidence, like when other people can see something in us at another level? That maybe we don’t have the full belief yet that it’s just like, okay, like, maybe they’re onto something. But like, what are some of the ways that we can do that? Maybe that’s one I know you have a more eloquent way to say that.

Judith Gaton 14:56: Oh, maybe not. I don’t like—

Roberto Candelaria 15:00: Y’all know me, I’ve just like, one plus one equals two. And this is how we.

Judith Gaton 15:06: And I’m over here in the Lala Land. Nobody knows what I’m saying. So we both write, we’d all guide. I think it’s interesting, because remember if we think about the equation, so we’re our belief side, and then we have our action-taking side, right, I think sometimes, we need like, the little bit of like an inkling of an idea. Like, could it be possible maybe. And then we need our friends, mentors, people to come along and be like, that’s actually a sound idea, you should go take action on that. So, I think part of it is one humbling yourself enough to receive feedback. Because if you’re not open enough to receive feedback, you’re not going to be there. Like sometimes you think feedback is always negative. If you’re not open to receive feedback, sometimes you’re closing yourself off to the positive feedback. And the borrowing the belief, I believe, from my mentor to this day, in a certain point, maybe I won’t need to borrow so much belief from her. But I totally do right now. And when I got coached by her live last year, um, she like, these are good ideas. And just because somebody doesn’t buy them right away, doesn’t mean they’re not good ideas, and that you shouldn’t keep trying, that will stick with me forever, I will always think of that moment, right cried my ass off in front of a group of 100 people getting out coached live was a mess. But like, now I have that because I had the Inkling foundation of the ideas. And I didn’t need her to come along. And I couldn’t beat myself up for needing her. But I’m not going to thank you so much coach mentor who loves me for giving me that little belief boost so that I could go take action and try some shit out. So, I think it’s just being open to receiving feedback, both positive and negatives, and not beating yourself up for being at the stage where you need it in some form or fashion. I think those two things are pretty important. What do you think?

Roberto Candelaria 16:50: I think that I want to ask you another question in alignment. And it’s this idea that it beautifully with, actually, when you said it, that’s why y’all don’t get to see this. But Jesus was talking, I was like, you don’t want to get that lightbulb moment. Like my finger went up in the air, like—

Judith Gaton 17:05: I figured, but I was there for it. It was good.

Roberto Candelaria 17:09: So, like, in this same conversation, like, can you talk about staying the course when you believe in something? And I think one of the things that I see so many, like just business owners and humans do in business and in life is be like, Well, I tried it once nobody wanted it. So, like, got to go come up with a new thing. And it’s like, every other week, they have a new offer. And they’re just like, I can’t get no clients. Nobody knows what I do. It’s just like rubbish. You don’t know what you do? Because like you keep changing it every single day, because you’re not getting to yes, you’re like, Oh, I’m not getting any traction. It’s like, we tried something for five minutes. Like how can you get traction in five minutes? So, like, what do you were talking and you know, sharing what your mentor shared with you about like, their great ideas. And like, hold on, like, what I wrote down was like, stay the course. And how does someone stay the course. And also know like, when maybe that course is like, maybe it’s just not the time for that course. Like part of staying the course could be like good means later, but like quit changing your name every five minutes.

Judith Gaton 18:17: And then hopefully people remember who you are famous today. What’s your name today? Yeah, I, so, I can only speak from my own experience with this. I used to tell myself to lie. I’ve tried everything was such a painful lie. We aim full lied, because I couldn’t possibly have tried everything. Because I don’t know what everything is to try. I only know what’s in my current purview. And I probably haven’t done even all of those things that I could imagine are my next steps. So, I think part of people get stuck in that that pattern of, oh, I tried something for five minutes. It didn’t work. I sent out an email. Nobody thought I used to think sure like this was I’m kind of laughing. Well, I sent out three emails and nobody bought and so I will send out eleven. And now I’d like I thought I told him before, like, stop it. Leave me alone. I’m like, you can unsubscribe, right? And were he different than I used to be. But I used to tell myself, this lab tried everything. And I think that’s how people get stuck in that pattern is the player changing their underwear every five seconds because I always have to use a panty analogy. Because like, they literally are thinking that they’ve tried everything. actually, switching up your offer so much and changing so much every five seconds is actually not trying everything. That’s a total lie. So first, I want you to be really honest with yourself like what did you actually try? And then ask your brain what five more things can I try? And after you’ve done those, ask it again, what are five more things I can try and do that shit again, and again and again and again. And then at some point you can say I feel good about all of my attempts. And now I’m going to change course but saying you’ve tried everything Be really secretly try nothing. You’re full of shit. Don’t kid yourself. Don’t do that to yourself. Don’t do this your audience and people will need you to stop lying. Basically, you have not tried everything that will be the gist of it.

Roberto Candelaria 20:11: Yes. Okay, so we’re gonna bring this back to panties real quick. So, I’m curious because I don’t know, like, I think, you know, this is, I think a difference between light. And I, of course, I’m going to get some sort of hate about this, but that’s just the way that it is. It’s just like, I think it’s so much different with men, like most of the time, it’s just like, up there’s a pack of underwear, though and go, but like, women’s underwear is such a thing. Yes. So, like, even like, if you were teaching this, like, you know, in your style master class, or to like it modern charm school, like, like, Would you tell somebody like to try a different pair of panties every day? Or like how like, Well, how long would you say like, Hey, try this. So, you know, like, this is like, your new panty.

Judith Gaton 20:49: So, even my panties or any garment, but we’ll just say panties in particular, because that’s where we went, I tell my clients, like before you go take them off, pause for a second and think to yourself, what went well here or what’s not going? Well, because it’s a goldmine of information. And we’re, we’re gonna miss out on that goldmine of information if we’re constantly flinging panties every five seconds, and starting to evaluate what was good about this pair? And what was horrible, I will never do again. Otherwise, we just were prone to repeat the same mistakes not even knowing that we’re repeating them because we never stopped to pause and figure out why did these panties not work? This is true of life. My friends do that analogy for life. So many you’re riding around like chickens with your head cut off, but you should stop and be like, Why did these panties not work? Why do they work? The same applies to everything literally.

Roberto Candelaria 21:36: And it was funny to say that I was just like, and especially for like the females that I know, like are female identifying Right? Like there’s different panties for different reasons. So, like, you know, I my niece is about to be a sophomore. And she just got on to the JB dance team. And she’s like, I need seamless panties. Like, why do you need seamless panties? She’s like, well, because of the dance outfits. Like they tell us like that. We need this seamless pen. So, like I tried to be the good uncle. I went and bought some. Oh, I love that. You were there was trying. It’s just like, well, yes, they’re called seamless. But you see here, like, you can still see the ham. So, there’s no sim seam here. But the bottom here, there’s still this ham. And that’s going to show through the dance output. So, these aren’t true seamless. What we need is this and I’m just like, dude, how much how much easier it is just to like, jump online and go to jockey club they can give but I need to. But it reminded me of like when you were sharing like the I was picturing panties thrown over where it’s just like, your offer may be a different offer for different people to it’s like this may be my membership offer, this may be my high ticket, or this may be my one on one. And like you’re trying to identify yourself buy a pair of panties, or like one offer versus like getting to know who you are. And I think that that’s what you were saying is people are trying to make their competence what they sell, versus who they are, is what I heard.

Judith Gaton 22:58: Yeah, we love to outsource confidences if we could, that’s not how it works right? At its base. Competence is an emotion that we generate with our own thinking. So, I can’t outsource my confidence, just like I can’t outsource my dismay or distraught or any insert negative emotion. When something doesn’t go according to plan. I can’t outsource that feeling to my next offer. Like if I just change offers, and I’ll feel better, your offer network is going to make you feel better, good, or bad. It’s not its job. Right? Just like your clients there, it’s not their job to make you feel good about what you do. It’d be nice if they did it, it’s not their job. That’s your job. So, if we just stop outsourcing our identity and our sense of well-being to something outside of us, we would all probably be a lot better off. But that’s not to say that you should be a hermit in a vacuum and never hoped for praise or people to cheer you on. But there has to be a little bit of a balance for yourself, and then you’re in a better position to receive any external feedback or praise.

Roberto Candelaria 23:59: That was really the last question here. Because y’all Listen, Judith and I could record for like 12 hours and I mean, we can have our own podcast but

Judith Gaton 24:07: This is actually our second attempt at the podcast because that happened before.

Roberto Candelaria 24:13: That happened the last time to be off. Like this is what happens when we get together. We’re just like Boo idea. So, I guess we’ll end with this idea. And maybe there may be a follow up part later, but like to the lovely humans listening, and I’m going to add a little disk not disclaimer, I don’t know what the right word is with an extra emphasis to our other friends who are people of color. You know, I have Chucky With A Knife for y’all. We’re gonna hear about another episode, and you’re gonna learn all about who Chucky is. I recently had a realization about internalized depression, but that’s a whole nother episode y’all. It’s a whole nother episode, but like as people are going through their day today, like what would you leave them with? Or just had to keep going? Because I think that’s what people need some time especially where the world is right now. There’s a lot of shit going on just how do I keep going?

Judith Gaton 25:03: I love starting with a premise of like, what if it is a good idea and that’s something I’ve been practicing since my conversation my coach is it’s I’ve been practicing over and over again and I think sometimes we start with the premise was this is a bad idea What if it’s not gonna work and I want to just flip that real quick real quick my people’s like oh gee Jack, like I love you. But let’s try this a different way like on this this is a really good idea. Let’s just start with that premise. Like what if it could be amazing and not because I’m trying to gaslight you or tell you a bunch of like bullshit positive affirmations that we can like embroider on pillows and shit like if you know anything about me that’s not how I roll but like just playing with that idea for a second like what if this is a good idea? I don’t know the perfect way to market this yet. I don’t know the perfect way to offer it yet. But I can go try some shit. And if you’re at that place where you’ve tried some shit I want you to just not believe the lie that you’ve tried everything instead I want you to ask powerful questions. What are the five next things that I’d like five next steps that I can take five things that I can do one of them might be go talking to your mentor getting them to gaslight you up a little bit? Gas up your head so you can go back out in the street? That’s okay, too. But like what are the next five things I could do? So, what if this is a good idea? And what are the next five things I can do and never believe the lie that you’ve done everything. Those are the three things.

Roberto Candelaria 26:21: I love it. Well, y’all thank y’all for joining Judith and me today. We’ll be back I’m sure again, or maybe we’ll do a class or something together. Who knows? But y’all have a good day and we’ll chat with y’all soon.

Outro 26:33: Thanks for listening to another episode of the Relationships Make Money Podcast, subscribe to the show and never miss another episode. Want to stay connected. Learn more about our Facebook community and other free resources at robertoteaches.com.