Episode 010 – How Vulnerability Affects Your Personal Growth w/ Judith Gaton

Roberto Candelaria 00:00 : Well, hey, y’all welcome back to another episode of the show. And I’m wondering, have you ever, like looked back at something or listen to something even if it was only two, three months back and noticed how much has changed? And just a few quick months? Well, that is what listening to this episode was for me today. And so today’s episode is with Judith Gaton. She is a stylist and master certified life coach and author and y’all, she happens to be a former lawyer. And I met her at the Life Coach School mastermind back in April of 2022. More about that in the episode, but I reached out to her in May 2022. And was just like, hey, I’ve got this idea. I have no idea what this show is going to be called yet. I’m going to rebrand it. I’m in a big pivot in my own life, and you want to come play. And so listening to this episode today, and you know, October 2022, when we’re releasing it from recording this in June 2022. It’s was just so beautiful, to be able to sit back and listen to it and to see where the clarity is not only in my business and the direction I’m headed, but also Judith will mention a super secret baby projects as we’re calling them now, y’all there ain’t no babies, but baby projects in the business and how we’ve both been able to bring these business ideas to life since this conversation back in June. So so many amazing nuggets. I hope that you will tune in, listen, and welcome to episode number 10 of the show.

Intro 1:33 : Welcome to the relationships make money podcast, where it’s all about the people, partners and profits. Each week, we’ll explore conversations around partnerships, leadership, our thoughts and profits. And now your host Roberto Candelaria.

Roberto Candelaria 1:51 : All right, y’all. So we’re back. And we’re here with a lovely, lovely human by the name of Judith Catan, who I got to meet at the Life Coach School mastermind, those of y’all that don’t know what the Life Coach School is, y’all should probably go check it out, because it’ll most likely change your entire life. And so I actually got there not because I was one of their certified coaches yet, I’m actually going through their certified certification program right now. And a friend invited me Brooke Castillo, the founder of the school. And Judith gave a presentation that changed my life. And so I was just like, I just love this woman, we need to get her here. She’s a whole vibe. And the topic of her talk was creating a perso nal and collective Renaissance. And at first I was like, Renaissance, like, I could deal with the hotel suite. And I just like went super bougie with it, like, we’re gonna go to the Renaissance, we’re gonna go to the spa. And she’s like, opening her mouth and like speaking, which is such clarity and such conviction, and I was just like, I need to know this human. So Judith, welcome. Tell us a bit about you.

Judith Gaton 2:51 : Thank you for the intro. And I felt the same way about you. We chatted after my tag, and I was like, I’m gonna follow up on him. And then you Instagram messaged me. And I was like, Thank God, he messaged me, because I’ve been thinking about you. Like, I wonder how he’s doing. Like, I wonder like, what he’s up to now after mastermind, and blah, blah, blah. So I’m so glad you reached out. And I’m glad we’re gonna we’re able to chat today. So hello, audience. Hello, everyone. I’m Judith Gaton. So I am a master certified life coach and personal stylist. I am a former lawyer. I practiced as a litigation attorney doing insurance defense work for 11 years before I transitioned to full time coaching.

Roberto Candelaria 3:28 : Awesome, awesome. Awesome. What actually, like what was the AHA that was just like, how do I go from attorney to coaching like knowing your vibe, there was probably something in you that was just like this shit ain’t working?

Judith Gaton 3:40 : Yeah. It’s like such a funny road. So I started out very cynical about coaching. Because I had a client I was doing high profile divorces back in the day, like million dollar estates with like, millionaires fighting with each other over like toilet paper holders. It was fantastic. And I had a client, she was like, I’m going to be a life coach. And I was like, No, you’re not. That is not a thing that is made up. We don’t just become life coaches. No. So I Pinterest searched life coach podcast, and this lovely blonde woman who is your friend who’s my mentor, teacher, Brooke popped up and I was like, okay, so I listened cynically, like, I’m gonna disprove this. And then she was like, yeah, so your thoughts create your feelings? I was like what, no. So I tried to get all the attorneys in the courthouse to like, agree with my stance. And I know that actually kind of makes sense. And it was like, Okay, wait a minute. So every morning for weeks, I listened to Brooke, on my way to court. And I eventually, you know, check her trainings and I met Carlone file whose attorney turn full time life coach, and something about the combination there two brains. It dawned on me at some point, like I could take everything I love and make a business baby. I was driving back from Coachella, I hadn’t experienced at Coachella, that’s a whole other story. So I’m driving back from Coachella and my car. One of my favorite like, favorite gospel songs comes on But I remember sitting in the car and I remember saying, Okay, God, if there’s a way I could do style help really smart women and do coaching stuff and like, make it work. And I don’t know what it looks like, like, just can we do that? Whatever that is. and I were just like sending that up. And then I met Brenda Lomeli is another coach. And she was like, oh, yeah, you can make up stuff. You can do whatever you want. What is happening, right? And I mean, like, over time, over time, I really was all in I was just like, I, here’s the aha moment thought just to sort of answer your question short, and the short version is, I realized I could affect more change and help more women, as a coach than I could as an attorney. And that that was a game changer.

Roberto Candelaria 5:38 : I love that. There’s a couple things that you said that stuck out to me. One was this thought about when she told you, you can make stuff up and to your attorney brain that was probably like now, like, the law is this or this and have some fun. Like, one of my best friends is an attorney. She says she’s the client also. And sometimes I’ll be like, Well, how about this? She’s like, it’s a yes or no, it’s a right or wrong. And so like, what was that process for you of like, embracing that, I can make things up, I can look to possibility.

Judith Gaton 6:10 : It’s so interesting, because I started out as a fashion design major in school. So I was always a creative, but I was also extremely smart. And I think for a lot of people, especially as like a young brown woman, it was like, pick something that’s assured, pick something that is going to pay your bills, and then you know, you can play on your own time later. But now we got to make some money and pay some bills and shit. So it was kind of like, it’s funny, because I started out as a fashion design major. So I was always very creative. And, you know, I, when I was younger, the idea was like, well, you’re really smart. So you should do something with your smarts. And young brown people are often advised to get into professions that will make them quote unquote, a lot of money and are stable. So I mean, through different scenarios, I somehow convinced myself that being a lawyer would be easier. It makes no sense in retrospect. But being a lawyer would be easier than being a fashion designer, and having to sort of put myself out there create creatively in that way. The funny thing is being a lawyer and being a litigator, the kind of litigation I did was very creative. So I still got to use both sides of my brain, which made me really good at my job. But initially, there was a little war, because we love to think in black and white, but we also love to tell our clients so the answer is it depends. Do you ever mean No, no, like, it depends. Here’s five different scenarios where it could be this, here’s 20 different scenarios where it can be that like, we never give straight answers. So why in our own brains, we like to create weird dichotomies. I don’t know. But the reality is, it depends. It always depends, right? So yeah, that’s kind of how I ended up where I ended up with that word, my brain going on.

Roberto Candelaria 7:47 : And for those of you listening that tell me, it depends. I remember just, just No, I remember. And so, you know, during your presentation at Life Coach School mastermind, there was a couple quotes that you said, and I wanted to play with a couple of those today. And the first one being, you said, find someone that will hold you accountable for what you say you want. And I know that for myself, there’s been times that I’ll be like, oh, I want to lose weight. Well, I mean, let’s be real, like, I really don’t want to lose weight, because I would have or, like, I want to have that car. But then I see that it’s like, you know, $200,000, and mechanic, we really don’t need that. But then there’s things like, I want to grow my business to this point, or recent declaration. I’ve made this, like, I’ll have a $10 million business within 10 years. And like that type of thing. I’m just like, I feel that that is so yummy. It’s so delicious. But then you actually get into the process of it. And so when you were going through this transition of attorney to coach like, what really gave you the permission to transition? And who held you accountable? Like where did you learn, I should find somebody to hold me accountable to what I want.

Judith Gaton 8:56 : Yeah. So I realized a few things, just watching really amazing attorneys get through law school. And one thing I realized that we all needed like a buddy to do well, and it wasn’t like someone necessarily that was always cheering you on. Sometimes there was like low key competition that would develop but that also was like a really healthy way of like spurring each other into action, and then reminding ourselves of why we wanted to do the damn thing in the first place. So when you find accountability buddies, whoever they are for you, it’s important that yes, they’re cheerleading you want I think that has its place, but you also want someone who’s going to challenge you, that’s going to get you that little competitive thing happening in your heart to spur you into action to remind you why you wanted to do this damn thing in the first place. Lucky for me, I entered into a world of coaching I think at a beautiful moment where I had a lot of access to a brain like our mutual friend Brooks or my teacher Brooke right or I had access to Carlo and file and Brenda Lomeli and Katrina Yubell, and these are sort of big names in my small world, but I had a lot of access to them that I probably otherwise wouldn’t have had I come into this world in a different time. Now that’s not to say that’s not still accessible to all of you. But I found my lovely friend, mentor teacher people at the right moment in my life. And I was very coachable. So if you want someone to hold you to account, you have to allow yourself to be held to account okay? We all say we want accountability and mentorship. But are you going to actually be a good mentee? Are you going to be a good like receptacle for someone’s wisdom and experience and knowledge which is going to require a level of humbling and a little bit of dropping your ego and saying you don’t know what you don’t know? So yes, we want people to hold us to account for our dreams, not just as pure true leader, like cheerleader. sycophants are going to tell us everything we want to hear. We need someone who’s going to make us uncomfortable, and show us like we can. And I think I have some beautiful examples from some amazing women who all make seven figures in excess of that. And they’re like, and we’re still human, and we still deal with anxiety and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but they never let me just sort of cop out on my dream. They hold me to account they call bullshit, they call shenanigans. And I’ve just been so privileged to be in their sphere of influence.

Roberto Candelaria 11:14 : And love that a few things that I really resonate with me and I think will resonate with people listening was this idea of being coachable. One of the things that used to just like blow my mind. So earlier, you mentioned just kind of about like life coaches. So for those of y’all that have been in my sphere in my world, for many years, before there was a podcast or anything, y’all know, I used to hear the term life coach, and I was like, they’re just so full of shit, they’re gonna go online, they’re gonna get this $25 certificate, they’re gonna print it offline and call themselves a life coach, and like, they can’t fix their own life. So why they’re going to coach me. And like, that was just really my take about life coaching in general. But I had a different lens, because I knew our mutual friend, to be a woman of integrity to be just so forthright, and with everything that she does. And I was like, Okay, what’s going on here like, this ain’t no $25 certificate, like you actually have to do things to actually get in here. And so when you said be coachable, one of the things that stuck with me is how many coaches and y’all I’ve been guilty about this too, let’s be real are want to coach but they’re not open to be coached.

Judith Gaton 12:16 : Yeah. Like how many entrepreneurs buy programs, and they don’t want to receive the information or the strategy or the, from the person they purchase from like it, it blows my mind, that kind of obstinate reaction and the way sometimes I can sort of make sense of it as a coach and watching human behavior is like some people who are, you know, we’d like to lead, we like to be front and center, we like to be hands like we come to coaching with that kind of attitude. But to be an effective coach, you actually have to make sure it’s never about you, it’s always about your client. And to be able to get into that kind of posture, so that you’re holding the container for these lovely humans that you’re serving, you have to allow yourself to be in containers where other humans are being served and be a good participant be a good guest, be you know, a good coachee, a good client. And it’s really hard sometimes. So if some of you feel a little bit of resistance, here’s what I want you to watch for. Sometimes when we resist something, we’re not actually resisting the information coming in, we’re resisting the emotion that it’s bringing up for us. And then we rebel in reaction because we don’t want to feel a feeling within the rebellion is never against the person that we’re assuming we’re aiming it at. It’s actually against ourselves. So you buy a program, and then you get pissed off and you’re like, Fuck, this dude isn’t always talking about I’m not gonna participate. Fuck all this, like, I’m not about that life, right? Oh, I feel you cool. But check in real quick, what emotions coming up for you? What did they say to you? What did you think about it? And what came up for you and who you rebelling against because you choose not to participate? Or to get what you paid for? That’s not help. Like they’re not affected by that you are my friend. And yes, I do want you to leave places that feel toxic or unsafe, or you’re not seen or heard. That’s not what I’m talking about. You have to check in with your own reactions. If you’re so resistant to something, find out why.

Roberto Candelaria 14:07 : Absolutely. And I would add to that is learn to be vulnerable with yourself. And, you know, I found that years ago, my ego was y’all my ego was as big as this world. And I, it was impossible. And so I say this from a place of going through this, it was impossible for me to be coached because I had all the answers. Now they weren’t the right ones. Okay, like, let’s be clear, but I had them.

Judith Gaton 14:33 : They weren’t answers all right.

Roberto Candelaria 14:37 : And it wasn’t until my father passed in 2019 that actually really softened me as a human. Because all of a sudden it was just like, you know, when your rock is gone, like when your best friend is gone. He’s just like, what’s really going on here? When you sit and listen to people eulogize your father, you’re just like, man, how do I be that man? And it was really just this turning point in my life that allowed me to learn to be vulnerable with myself, because then I can actually be that with other people as well. And I just think that was so key. And so you know, to vulnerability, you also mentioned access. And the reason I say the vulnerability here is that some people would believe that, you know, oh so and so’s making, they’re already making six figures, so and so’s making seven, so and so’s making eight, they’re too far out of reach for me. And so in that journey of accountability to themselves to where people want to get whether there, it’s leaving, leaving, being an attorney, you know, who I’m talking to, whether it is you know, growing your coaching business, or starting it or starting your community, whatever it is that you say that that you want, and where you’re going. You know, one of the things we all need, I would say is access to people that have gone before us and whatever that looks like to us. So like for me, I reached out to you on Instagram, and I was like, y’all just for real? The head trash. I was like, I’m gonna reach out to her. She’s not gonna remember who I am. She’s gonna be like, Who is this crazy kid? Why is he stalking me? And y’all, there was this whole thought thing in my head. But I still like you know what, all I’m gonna do is ask you to be on the podcast, because the worst she could do is just not even reply. Like no wasn’t even the worst right? In my head. No, it was like, she could just not reply. Or she could just be like, Who the hell are you? In that, right? Like, when you talk about some of the people you got to be around? What was that process in asking for help to saying, hey, help me get where I want to be.

Judith Gaton 16:30 : And this is something y’all like to be vulnerable. It’s not something I’m good at. Because like you I knew it all. Like as a young attorney, I was a wild woman. Like the shit I would tell judges now I think back and cringe I’m like, I don’t know why wasn’t held in contempt and fined like all the time. Like I remember from the bench, one of my favorite judges. She’s like, young lady, did you roll your eyes at me? I was like, No, I didn’t, Your Honor. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I totally rolled my eyes at her. I felt like I was a wild woman. So there was this is not easy for me. But here’s what I realized. Like along the way, I love to sit down with someone and encourage them and love on them and tell them that they’re capable of anything that this determined to like really pour belief and love into them. And I was listening to something else. That was a different context. One of the things they said is to be a gracious gift receiver. And I love to give I love, love, love to give, but I was not so good at being a gracious receiver. And it was like, oh shit, actually, I’ve been really ungracious by like, refusing to help or not receiving it while or whatever. And it had this really funny moment with I don’t think I’ve told I’ve said this aloud. I think we’ve mentioned on my podcast, so I’ll say Corinne Crabtree, and I fangirled out really hardcore when I saw her I’m gonna like full disclosure, total honorably. I was like, oh my god, it’s the queen. Like, that’s how I felt when I saw her. And then I start doing this like, weird thing with my body where like squishing in and she’s so lovely. She was like, kind of like trying to mirror me like, where are we going? Why is your head tilted? Like, it was all weird. Of course, this is all happening in my head. And I remember her looking me in the eye and just telling me, like, keep going, just keep taking action. And because I finally stopped acting like a know-it-all, and pretending like I knew what to do next in my business, because I totally didn’t. And all those things. Like when I finally dropped that facade, I stopped fangirling I was able to receive something that has stuck with me for years now. Just keep taking action, just keep taking action, and I brought it up to her still fan girled totally, full disclosure. And like she’s like, Yeah, I remember that. And it was so funny, because I thought, oh, there’s no way she’s gonna remember me. She doesn’t know who I am sure. Remember this moment? She totally remembers that moment, right? Like, just like, I remember my mom was with you right after the station. Like, sometimes we think like, oh, if I ask them for help, I’m bothering them, or maybe I’m weird or creepy, or they’re gonna ignore me, or blah, blah, blah. But sometimes it’s just as much for you as it is for them. I get so much pleasure of like hugging people and holding them when they’re crying and telling them everything’s gonna be fine, and that they’re lovely. And it’s normal, and everything’s good. Why would I also believe that to be true about other people that they love pouring out just like as much as I do. And like, that was a game changer for me, because I have a really hard time asking for help. And once I realized that being a gracious receiver, and everyone likes it, too, and I’m in a room full of crazy people love hugging each other and crying in front of each other. Like, why not? And that opened the door for me to ask for more help and kind of saddle up and listen in and pay attention a little bit more. Like that’s how you get the help that you need.

Roberto Candelaria 19:21 : Yes. Just yes to all of that. And by the way, I still fan girl over Corinne too.

Judith Gaton 19:28 : Corinne, you have a fan club, if you ever hear this fan club.

Roberto Candelaria 19:32 : And you know what, like, oh, I won’t say the exact details but like very much how I had an initial conversation with you online. I wrote a message to Corinne. And it was so funny because like our thoughts, y’all is what I want you to hear. It’s like these are just our hits. Like she runs like an eight-figure business. Yeah. So like, I sent something and I was just like, it had been like, I don’t know, like 10 minutes. And I was like, oh my god, she hates me. She hasn’t replied back I have like, she hates me. And so then, you know, a couple days later, I got a message from someone on her team. They’re like, Hey, this is so and so I’m Corinne’s social media assistant, and like grats on being on certification with Life Coach School, and I was like, she saw me that y’all want to hear this y’all like, this is for like you for your team’s for everybody. It wasn’t even Corinne. It was that someone on her team because of the culture that she’s built, read something and saw me for something that I felt that I was doing that was scary. And it was like, and by the way, here’s the way to reach out. And I was like, there’s a way to reach out. And all of a sudden, it was like, there’s this possibility that I might get to talk to THE Corinne. And it sounds so silly. Right. But I think that some of you may be thinking about that about Judith about me about other people in your space. Like, I can’t reach out because I’m not here yet. Wherever here is and all any of us are is exactly where we’re at right now. And so the next line was this. And I actually broke out in tears while you were saying this. I don’t know if anybody else did. I did. It was what I did the moment and you said be the explosion. And I know what it meant to me in the moment because actually rephrase it. I don’t know what it meant to me. My body knew what it meant. Because there was just this literal outbreak of tears. Like there was no words, there was no thoughts. I was sitting there taking notes. And the next thing like water is just coming out of my eyes. And I don’t know why. And I’m like, why did that resonate with me so much? And I eventually came to something but I’m curious, like, what does that mean to you? And how do people learn to be that explosion from themselves? Like, how do you embody that?

Judith Gaton 21:39 : Yeah, I mean, when I said it, I think honestly, when you like speak in front of that larger group, like you kind of remember what you said to me, and also don’t remember what you said. So I remember sort of the context around that particular sentence was, you know, we’re all waiting for some explosive material. I mean, for external validation, external permission, the idea of the strategy, the pathway forward, whatever it is, if you will, and like, it’s not enough, it’s not enough, it won’t sustain you. And when I said be the explosion, I want you to be your own source of inspiration. There’s so many aspirational brands and influencers and people we could look to out there, I have my list, clearly Corinne is on it. Like, we have our list of people that we like, we want to aspire. And what I really want to encourage all of you to do is not aspire to be like anyone, and just flip that around to learn to be inspired by them. So you know how to be inspired. So you can create that from yourself internally, which means we turn off a lot of the noise around us, we stop looking for the perfect strategy the right way, because no such thing exists. And we start to ask ourselves, what would I love? What would I want? What is true to my own ethos. My own passions, things that I’m passionate about that I’m excited about? One thing Roberto and I were talking about before we finally hit record was some things that he’s passionate about some ideas that he has all like for you all, and they’re juicy as fuck, I can’t wait for him to share with you guys because it’s gonna be fire, right? Like, but that came from him. When we step inside his brain and asked his brain, what would you love? These beautiful ideas came out, and I’m like, I’m here for this. But if we had said, Okay, well, what did your mentor say, notice that fire goes out, and we’re in our head, and we’re not in our heart. Like, we want to produce a kindling, so that your fire burns so bright that you could be that person who pours into another person. Helps give a little spark to them. But then showing them how they can be internally motivated. And then they pass it on. And the ripple effect is awesome. But it’s always because we’re helping pilot light other people, but we’re not expecting them to always look to us for a source of kindling. And we’re not always looking for other sources of kindling, that’s exhausting for yourself or the people in your circle, that expectation will always lead to disappointment. But when you’re so internally inspired and motivated, it’s like no one can touch you boo boo. Nobody, nobody.

Roberto Candelaria 24:08 : So playing with the nobody can touch you, boo, boo. There’s conversations that we have. And when I say we, because this is a new iteration of the show, if you notice, when I started, I did not say the show name. That’s because Judith and I are actually recording this in a place of transition when the show does not have the new name yet. And so she doesn’t even know what it’s going to be called. Because I don’t and so we’re all going to be surprised when it comes out. And one of the things that I want to highlight is, you know, we’ve done a lot of work over the years with women and people of color. And while we’re doing what we can, I’m doing my part. I also know that sometimes when we show up places, we don’t always see us and that’s one of the things that I told you right away. I was just like, thank you for being here. Yeah. And so too little Judith, or the little Judith listening here, like what would you tell her about her journey as a coach and stepping into business and entrepreneurship,

Judith Gaton 25:02 : I just got chills and I probably will get emotional. Little Judith was such a delight. Like I think about my little self and I love to put on shows, which probably surprises nobody in my adult life. And I was always about a show and I tell him, I’m gonna put a show mommy, I’m going to do a show and my mom, God bless her. She like, okay, so patient, I love my mama, I should probably do this podcast episode because she listens to every podcast episode I’m on. And I used to do these shows for her on our table. And I like create costumes is that ever was lying around. And I there’s like a great picture of me and my little sister who always got roped into these things. And she’s totally shy, which is kind of funny. But we’d have buckets on her head. And we’re like, doing whatever. Like there’s like a little face. And we’re like in it right. And it’s so funny because there’s a picture of me on the stage at mastermind making a face. And it’s the same face like the little get-you-good face, right that I made when I was four. So it’s like, I caught a little glimpse of her looking at those pictures. And it’s so funny, because for a while, I was so worried that people would think I was like, presenta, like, if you’re Puerto Rican, like that’s like being like a ham or being showy or a muchy, much or too much. And I was so worried about being perceived that way being too loud, being crass, cursing, and yes, obviously, I can switch, I can switch it up when I need to right? Like I could go from million-dollar words to hood in about 10 seconds. I have that in me. But I was so worried about other people seeing a glimpse of that side of me, or the showy part. Or perhaps I was, and this is something I’m still grappling with. And to be quite honest, is I don’t ever want anyone to think I’m a minstrel version of a fat Puerto Rican woman on stage. That I’m not in caricature. This is actually who I am. This is how I speak. I can be crass and do sort of weird gesturing, if you will. Let’s just play with your imagination. Yeah, this is the podcast and what the hell that means, right? And also, I can be very articulate, and I can command a room. So little Judith has come out to play way more, because I’m allowing her to finally,

Roberto Candelaria 27:06 : Thank you for letting little Judith out. Yeah. And I think what like everybody can learn from that, too, is just, you know, we…I forget who initially said it, we have any of you in personal development. You’ve heard this one way or another, but it was just like, who were you before the world told you who you had to be? And I’m so glad you got the glimpse of that. And so as we head out today, where can people find you? Where can they learn more about you and, and what’s next and all of the amazingness that you’re bringing into the world?

Judith Gaton 27:35 : Yeah, so some of my things will not have names either. We have a lot of like, idea baby. No names right now. It’s good.

Roberto Candelaria 27:48 : To just call that out real quick. Like, I hope that if y’all there’s there’s been so much value that Judith has brought today, if you heard none of that, and there’s no way that you could not but if you didn’t, what I want you to hear is that we’re all in this journey together. We’re all walking step by step. We’re all figuring this shit out. And sometimes you get to go back to the drawing board and give yourself permission to do that.

Judith Gaton 28:10 : So program baby no name. That’s what we have both of us. It’s so good.

Roberto Candelaria 28:16 : We’re both pregnant.

Judith Gaton 28:18 : With ideas, cause we have maybe no names, we’ll keep you posted. But I I’ll just aside, I do have a podcast called style masterclass podcast and I do have an eight-week style services and coaching program where we dress you we build up your confidence, your coaching, and then we send you out into the world stylishly and confidently dressed. So that might have a different name, but that’s what it is. Yeah.

Roberto Candelaria 28:44 : All right. Well, thank you for being here in closing, any last thought?

Judith Gaton 28:47 : Yeah, yeah. Just people you admire people you love. They’re human too. And if you can get to that place where you just see them as humans, yourself as human, and we’re all on this ride together, doing it messy and imperfect. It’s just going to be a lot sweeter and smoother and more fun.

Roberto Candelaria 29:03 : Awesome. Well, thanks for being here, Judith, all of y’all. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the show, which is probably the first one of the new show we shall see. And we’ll chat with you soon. Bye. Bye.

Outro 29:14 : Thanks for listening to another episode of the relationships make money podcast, subscribe to the show and never miss another episode. Want to stay connected? Learn more about our Facebook community and other free resources at robertoteaches.com.