00:00:00 Roberto Candelaria: Well, Hey y'all, welcome back to the show. Listen Roberto here, and today we're having a conversation with my friend Jenny. Jenny is an amazing website designer, building websites to help coaches be able to share more of their story, be able to get more consults, and then close those consults. She believes in building websites that allow coaches to share their work with the world, their brilliance with the world, and also make a big impact through their coaching. Jenny and I met through the Life Coach School, and I absolutely love Jenny, oh my gosh, listen, as a mom, I love the way that she shows up for her kids. As a wife, I love the way that her and her husband have built this amazing business together, an amazing relationship, the way that they communicate, the way that they laugh together, the way that they just bring so much joy into each other's lives. And I think that that's so key as an entrepreneur, to be able to have a spouse, to be able to have a partner, someone that you not only share life with, but can share business with, and all of the ups and downs that come with it, but still choose each other and choose joy at the end of the day. And so today, we're going to be having a conversation about websites, about testimonials, and oh, one more thing, Jenny is also a story brand certified guidance. So if you're one of those people, it's like, hey, trying to get my messaging down, definitely be sure to check out, Jenny, so I'm looking forward to this episode. I hope that you enjoy this episode, and now let's enter a conversation with my friend Jenny.

00:01:51 Roberto Candelaria: Okay, y'all, so we're back, and truth be told, we kind of recorded this episode before, and then all I'm gonna say is, when you get technology, actually look at what it does and doesn't do because it deleted our interview. And well, here we are. So this time, we get to have an even more fun conversation with Jenny.

00:02:10 Roberto Candelaria: And I just feel that everything happens for a reason. So y'all, it's going to be even better this time. So Jenny, listen. Why did you get here? Like, what got you started in web design? And I would add specifically for coaches,

00:02:22 Jennie Lakenan: Such a good question. So I actually found coaching first, and I love coaching so much, and I loved all the tools and the way that it changed my life. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to be a coach. Like, this is so awesome. I need everyone needs these tools and so but then I started talking to a lot of coaches like you do when you're interested in getting in the new industry. And I just started to realize, like, oh my gosh, their websites do not represent them well. Like they're like, you know, and I've talked to so many coaches since then that are like, Oh my gosh, I never send anyone to my website because it's so cringy and it's outdated. And I just thought this is wrong, like every coach deserves to have a website that represents them well, that helps them grow their business. And so that's what I sort of pivoted to doing. I did get certified as a coach, but by the time I finished certification, I was like, I have this beautiful web design business that helps me to get more coaching out there by helping coaches with their websites, rather than just, you know, doing coaching myself and and I really love, I love doing it because it helps, it helps these coaches to really show up confidently, as the established experts that they are in their space and their their online presence supports them in doing that. And that's just, that's why I'm here

00:03:35 Roberto Candelaria: Yeah, when? And, you know, I'm over here, like, giggling and chuckling, where you're like, oh my god, it's like, cringy and outdated. Because, like, I don't think I know any coach or small business owner at some point that has, like, every day just thought, oh my god, I have the perfect website. I think that, like, as we evolve our messaging and all of that that we do go through, that we're just like, it needs a refresher, it needs an update, it needs all these things. And so, like, when you think about these websites, like, what do you think I'm gonna I guess I'll just like, we'll just throw it out there. There are people that believe that social media is, like, the only way to get clients, and I believe that everything works. I believe it's one way, like, social media, email, all of these things, like, they're all part of this beautiful equation. Why do coaches need a website? Let's start there.

00:04:25 Jennie Lakenan: Well, because people are going to ask for it like you are who Google says

00:04:30 Roberto Candelaria: That answer, by the way, they're going to ask for it.

00:04:32 Jennie Lakenan: They do. They do, like, the number of of people that I've talked to, and of course, I always tell coaches like, you don't have to have a website when you first get started, like, of course, you can work with, you know, a landing page on on Kajabi, or flow desk, or whatever your email tool is. You can work with a social media presence to get started, but they're like, Yeah, I know. But every time I talk to people, you know, they're like, oh, this sounds so interesting. I love your niche. What's your website. They're not asking, what's your Instagram or what's your Facebook, you know what I mean. And so having that online presence that shows who you are, what you do, why they should care. I mean that space that you own, that no one else can touch, you know, and that really matters.

00:05:17 Roberto Candelaria: So let's, let's talk about that space that that you own. You know. I know you mentioned that you know people will be like, Well, what's your site, not what's your social media? And I think that we live in such a beautiful place in the world right now. Like, we like technology, while it can be confusing for some self included, y'all, we have more options than ever for coaches that want to get online. Can you talk a little bit about, when you're talking about, like, like, owning your space online, the difference between a WordPress website, which, you know, I have in my business, I know you have, you designed them for for coaches around the world, like, the difference between a WordPress site and maybe a course, platform that somebody might be using, where they can build a page or they can Build something forward facing, but kind of that difference between like, that WordPress site and when someone might want that over being on somebody else's land, per se,

00:06:09 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, like, and just to clarify, are you talking about like, like a Kajabi or like a

00:06:14 Roberto Candelaria: Or teachable or Thinkific? You know, I think there's a lot of coaches that are looking for these all in one platforms, and y'all, let's be clear, they nothing, all in one because if somebody ever created it, man, what that would cost? It just would be very expensive. But, like, I don't know, you know? I'll just start by saying, like, I know, for me, I started on a course platform that doesn't even exist anymore, and when that that thing went out of business, all of a sudden, I didn't have a website, yeah, it's that was literally up the creek without a paddle. And so I was just wondering if you could talk about, like, WordPress versus putting your stuff on, basically relying on somebody else's business to stay open,

00:06:52 Jennie Lakenan: right? Yeah. I mean anything that way before, I mean, you just kind of took, took the words right out of my mouth, like, there are, like, I'll just preface this by saying there are pros and cons to every, every website platform, we agree, yeah. And I think one of the one of the pros of, often, of these, sort of, like, all in one ish, or, you know, like, let's say you build a sales page on your Thinkific or on your teachable for your course in order to make it easier to sell, because you don't want to have to do it on a different website builder, and that totally can work. And maybe the upside of that is that it's easier because it's included, but the downside is that then you don't own that software, right? So like, it could, like happen to you, that software could go out of business, and if you're not paying attention, then your site goes down, or your page goes down and, you know, or, and you just, you have to migrate somewhere else. I mean, I think that's one thing that WordPress does have going for it, is that is, I mean, it's, it's not a software that someone else owns, that you're building on. It is an open source tool, which means that it's, you basically own your version of the website, like, even if wordpress.com were to go away, your website is self hosted, so it's not going to go away. It's always going to be there. And it's been around forever, like WordPress has been around forever. And I know you and I have joked about this before in other conversations, like WordPress won the battle like it won the battle of the Drupal and the whatever,

00:08:18 Roberto Candelaria: like Joomla and all the things.

00:08:21 Jennie Lakenan: And it's gonna, I think it's here to stay for a long time and and there are always developers that are, because it's open source, there are always developers that are creating new tools and new features and things to really make it just this super robust platform that can do anything that you want it to do. So that's definitely the upside of of that. Now it definitely can be a little bit more technical. So if you were someone that's DIY in your website, you want to make sure that you got, you've got a guide, you've got somebody that you're following, or a course or something that can really teach you step by step how to do it and and that's why I, like most of my work, is done for you websites. But I also do have, like, a DIY website course, because I, I've saw that indeed, too. And so I think that, yeah, that's just important to know too. That's the that's the downside of it. But the upside is that you own it, and, you know, it's always going to be there.

00:09:11 Roberto Candelaria: Yeah. And, you know, I think what's also, one of the things that, you know, people don't think about when it comes to the website, I know I didn't when I was doing my first websites, is that, you know, we look at at least I did previously. Like, some people will look at the cost of a website designer and be like, Oh my gosh. Like, that's more than I thought it would be. And, and, yeah, whether that number be whatever it is, people just like, it's more than I thought I'd be. I'd rather pay 199 a month. But they forget how often they're paying 199 a month, versus the investment of that site. And then their WordPress was, you know, and that was something else that was really just became interesting to me, to think about, is like that one time setup, whether they DIY, it like, Y'all, I DIY my first thing, I bought a website course on. Gonna say, similar to Jenny's that really walked me through. Like, how do you buy a domain? How do you find a hosting company? How do you install WordPress? How do you install the theme? And, like, that was my first version of a website that wasn't hosted on, like, one of these all in one course, platforms. So, like, I guess, for you, and in your experience, when does somebody look at DIY versus hiring a professional such as yourself?

00:10:27 Jennie Lakenan: Well, yeah, that's a good question, and that it that is sort of the answer is sort of twofold, like the you know, it's time to up level your site and think about hiring a pro when your website is not sort of matching the the maturity of of your business and your offer. And I kind of hate that answer, because it's sort of intangible, right? Like, it's almost a gut check, rather than, like $1 signs, looking at actual numbers on your your business, you know, stats dashboard. But I think it's important to consider, because you definitely don't want to be turning away potential clients or potential partnerships that would have reached out to work with you, but, but don't, because the way that your online presence portrays you is not as the the expert that you, that you are, you know, and I think that is, I mean, that that's when it's Time,

00:11:20 Roberto Candelaria: yeah. So, I mean, in thinking about that, like it doesn't partake, portray you as the expert that you are. I know, the other day, I was looking at my website. I was specifically looking at the speaking page of my website. I was in a Facebook group and somebody probably speaking. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna show them my page. And I went and looked at I was like, Oh, let me fix this real quick before I send it to had to, like, change. I made a couple quick tweaks in my website that somebody had built for me, which is also nice with WordPress. Like, just go in and just make those couple quick tweaks. But like, what are some of the mistakes that you see coaches making when designing their websites that don't let the world see them as that expert that they are?

00:11:58 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, I mean, it's funny, because my answer to this a few months ago would probably have been different. It probably would have focused more on like the design and the layout. And I mean, don't get me wrong, all of that does matter. How professional the site looks from design standpoint does matter. But you know, like, 40% of your conversions are going to depend on having the right offer. 40% are going to depend on having the right audience, and 20% are going to depend on the creative aspect, the design aspect. And so I think a big mistake that a lot of coaches make is that they're not they're not pinpointing a really specific problem in the messaging on their website that then they position their offer to solve. I think that's by far the most important thing that you can be doing on any website, is making sure that that there's a clear problem stated, there's a clear offer, a clear solution, and that those are very much in alignment with each other.

00:12:52 Roberto Candelaria: Yeah, so it sounds like you're saying that, like the storytelling that we do is so important on our websites. And I think sometimes people don't build sites to tell that story. It's like, here's a picture of me get this free thing, or go buy this.

00:13:06 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, yeah. And we give them so many options, like, you can schedule a call, or you can go follow me on Instagram, or you can, and it's like, no, make sure that they know that they know the next very clear step that they need to take to either buy, get on a call, or whatever the first step is that's in your sales process, because people want to conserve energy. They don't want to have to know and think really hard about what to do next. They want you to help them to take that next step for sure.

00:13:34 Roberto Candelaria: Yeah, so through your DIY course, you've obviously helped people that way create their WordPress websites, and your agency and your team have also built and deployed sites as well. In doing this, like, can you share an example or two of a site where you were just like, oh my gosh, storytelling made all the difference here for this person.

00:13:55 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, I'm thinking about there's a site that we just launched a few weeks ago for I guess it's actually been a couple of months. Now. Do you want me to say the actual URL?

00:14:05 Roberto Candelaria: It's up to you with it. If you're good,

00:14:07 Jennie Lakenan: well, it's, it's such a beautiful site, and I think the messaging is really on point, so I'll share it. It's coach, my renovation.com and it's from the it's a duo, a husband, wife duo, Bob and Veronica Krendl, and they are renovation coaches, and the top of their website has the pain point that the people who are visiting their site want to avoid, which is avoid a disastrous renovation. And it's very clear, and the main call to action is to opt in to get on their email list and download their renovation guide. And I just love how they spell out, like the pain points just below the fold, they're like, we're here to help you avoid getting ripped off by your contractor and stay within budget and feel confident that you didn't settle for poor quality. Like, boom, you know, and it's just so clear. So I feel like and they wrote all that copy. I didn't write the I don't provide copywriting as a service like done for you. Copywriting, because I think it's actually really important that coaches write their own copy, because no matter how skilled a copywriter is, they're never going to be able to write copy as well as you will for because you know your problem, your ideal client's problems, better than they ever could.

00:15:16 Roberto Candelaria: Can we say that again for the back of the room, because

00:15:20 Jennie Lakenan: it's kind of a controversial opinion. I like that. Everyone agrees with me but

00:15:25 Roberto Candelaria: I agree with you, though, because there's people that you and I know that have, I would say successful businesses that have gone out and paid multiple five figures for copywriters test them have been like my stuff still converts better. Why do we do that?

00:15:42 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, yeah. And that's not to say that copywriters aren't skilled. I myself have a copywriter now that helps me write blog posts, but

00:15:49 Roberto Candelaria: I use them too as well,

00:15:50 Jennie Lakenan: But it's for like, that core website copy. I think that it it just looks better when you write it, because it's gonna, it's gonna resonate more. You're gonna know the pain points more and the nuances of how to speak to your audience and their, their lingo. I do help with the like, the, the storytelling aspect, like we talked about earlier. I just finished the story brand certification, which I'm so excited about. It was so fun. And I have so many like, frameworks and things that I'm really excited to implement into what I already do for copy consulting. But it's basically like, I help you kind of come up with, okay, what are, let's define those problems. Let's define what solution you're offering and how it helps them and what success looks like for them, so that when you go to write your website copy, you know exactly what sort of to plug in, where and how to wordsmith it and everything. So, yeah, that's, that's my opinion on copyright.

00:16:39 Roberto Candelaria: And just to clarify real quick. Ya'll, like, Jenny and I was at like, I still use copywriters, and I found that, like, the best relationship that I've had with copywriters is when we write the first or second draft and then have them fine tune, because I'll send them stuff, and they'll be like, it's not 1980 anymore. Nobody uses that word. Or they'll be like, nobody knows what that word means. Can you please make it where a fifth grader could read this? And so I think that, like it's it's that fine, you'll find that beautiful combination for you. And so in terms of finding that beautiful combination, what are maybe one or two tips you have for coaches specifically to bring their personal story to show people that they are that guide for these people onto their websites.

00:17:24 Jennie Lakenan: Oh, that's such a good question. Well, first you gotta express like empathy. You gotta show them that you understand what they're dealing with, either because you've been there or because you've helped other clients to go, to navigate that and just to really help them feel heard and understood. So that that empathy piece is really important. And then also you need to show authority. You need to show that you know what you're talking about, right? And that can come from, you know, talking about the number of clients that you've worked with, it can come from, like, places that you've spoken at, or it can come really most, for most of us, it's going to come from those client testimonials like that. Authority piece is really amped up when they see, oh, these are other real people like me that have gotten a successful they've reached this ideal place that I want to go through working with this coach. So, yeah, empathy and authority are definitely the two biggest things that you can portray on your site.

00:18:20 Roberto Candelaria: Let's talk about testimonials real quick. People, self included, all will be like, Oh my gosh, it's so hard. When's the right time to ask them, How do I get it? Do I get it written? Do I get it video? Like, what are a couple quick tips for gathering testimonials from people?

00:18:35 Jennie Lakenan: Oh, that's such a good question.

00:18:37 Roberto Candelaria: They need to be on the website. Like

00:18:39 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah. So there are three questions that I always ask. I always ask, what is the pain point that you that you came to me to help solve? What were you dealing with before you came to me? How did we work together to solve that pain point? And then what's the last one like? What is your life like now because of it, or something like that. Basically it's like, what the setup, what was the problem, what did we do together? And then what's the result that you have now because of what we did? And those are the questions, kind of the prompts that I give to clients to ask, because that helps them to write a testimonial that has that story arc. It has the problem, it has the solution, and then it has the result at the end, and that's what our readers on our website are going to be the most intrigued by, is when a testimonial kind of shares that story arc.

00:19:29 Roberto Candelaria: Okay, y'all so y'all have learned quite a bit about WordPress sites today and websites in general, and I hope that you will consider if a WordPress site is right for you, whether that be building something yourself, and if you need some help with that, of course, Jenny has a DIY course, it will be linked here, or she does have a full agency that can do like the full development, branding, design, all of those wonderful things. And I'm sure there's some other words that I left out on that, but if you already have a website, listen, I know that we all make mistakes. When it comes to sites and you've created an opt in that's like, Hey, here's five things. So can you tell us real quick about that and where they can get it? And of course, we'll, we'll put the link in the show notes and all that as well.

00:20:13 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah, what I actually think would be really valuable based on what we talked about, was I actually have a testimonial email template.

00:20:20 Roberto Candelaria: Changing it on y'all.

00:20:22 Jennie Lakenan: So we're kind of changing, I think that it's going to be more it's going to be the most valuable thing. Because, you know, you've heard me tell those three questions, you're like, oh, okay, great. Now I know what to ask my clients, but if you want to make your life even easier, I do have an email template that basically it's the same email template that I send my clients to gather testimonials, and that really will resonate on a website. So let's, let's offer them that as an opt in, because they do that, that's going to give them the biggest impact.

00:20:51 Roberto Candelaria: See, y'all and this is just another beautiful lesson about entrepreneurship and how we just like, literally go on the fly, and we're just like, oh, we were going to do that, but this is better. So let's do this other thing, because it'll help people with what we talked about. And so I hope that that gives you all some freedom too, to just be like, Oh yeah, it's okay to switch it up.

00:21:09 Jennie Lakenan: Yeah. 100% Yep.

00:21:10 Roberto Candelaria: And so yeah, that link will be in the show notes as well. And then, of course, if you're on our mailing list, then you'll see it when we send out the email. So I guess in closing, what final piece of advice would you give to coaches about just continuing on this journey and how it can change your life and your family and the lives of the people that you serve?

00:21:34 Jennie Lakenan: Just my advice is always, just takes, take the next best step. When we're building a business, there are so many things to do, and it can feel really overwhelming, but what we can know is all right, what is right in front of me? Let me shorten my lens to Okay. I don't know how to build this big business or this huge website that I have given my dreams, but I do know that to build a website or to do the next thing in my business, I need to to get some pictures taken, or I need to email some clients to ask for testimonials. So I can go download Jenny's email template, or I can go ask my friend who for her photographer was. Or I can go sit down and write a homepage headline. I can focus. I can I can formulate in my mind that next best step. And so that's just always what I say to focus on when you feel overwhelmed. What is the next best step that you can take to move things forward, to take directionally correct action? Because it's going to be messy. But if we take, if we keep taking the next steps, like eventually we're going to get there.

00:22:31 Roberto Candelaria: Love it. Thank you so much. Jenny, I appreciate it. Y'all. Thanks for tuning in again, and we'll see y'all next week.